D-Day

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severebeating
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D-Day

Post by severebeating »

I noticed today that the Slapton Sands Disaster in 1944 occurred today. I have visited Normandy. For those military history buffs in the clan a worthwhile & interesting read @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/ ... d_01.shtml

This was an amazing series of engineering, military, logistical, planning, intelligence & counter intelligence feats the world had never seen. A 7,000 boat floatilla??? How do you keep that secret? I had a neighbor who passed away two years ago that was part of the D-Day invasion. Over 2 million Yanks camped in southern England in anticipation.

A good read.

SB
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RascalJones
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Re: D-Day

Post by RascalJones »

My great-uncle landed at Normandy on D-Day. A few years before he died, I got to sit with him to watch a football game, and ended up hearing his story. Man, I wish I had recorded what he had to say.
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Highlander999
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Re: D-Day

Post by Highlander999 »

My grandpa was driving one of the landing craft. It wasn't at Normandy, but further down the coast (I think in Holland) not even sure if it was at the same time as D-Day (pretty poor of me, not to know this :( ) Anyway, he told this story, about how they kept going in and out, and all the troops were crouching down in the landing craft with their helmets on. He then took the marines in and they were bloody well standing up with their berets on and not even ducking. He used to call them "bloody mad" :p
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Kaiser_von_Nuben
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Re: D-Day

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

D-Day was risky, but I really don't think the Allies could have "blown it" so to speak. The Germans had no sea power, no air force and were running low on fuel by June 1944. Even if they had stopped the initial beach landings, the Allies would have just sat back and bombed the hell out of them with their Air Forces. Air power really decided the campaign against Germany in the West. With no fighter cover, Allied planes paralyzed attempts to supply and reinforce German forces. They also bombed, rocketed and strafed German formations in the field. The Germans had much better tanks and equipment, but they had only small numbers of them; and when a Tiger tank appeared, the Allies just called in the Thunderbolts or RAF Typhoons.

In my view, Germany's goose was cooked even before the landings occurred. That is not to denigrate the efforts of Allied troops on D-Day. It's simply to say that no modern army can win a conventional war with no air power.
"The German Army will not stand for it!"

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GeneralMichael
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Re: D-Day

Post by GeneralMichael »

I remember that my one Grandfather has a tatoo on his arm with several numbers. He said he got it while he was fighting in WW2. I should ask him more about that.
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Blackadderthe4th
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Re: D-Day

Post by Blackadderthe4th »

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]D-Day was risky, but I really don't think the Allies could have "blown it" so to speak. The Germans had no sea power, no air force and were running low on fuel by June 1944. Even if they had stopped the initial beach landings, the Allies would have just sat back and bombed the hell out of them with their Air Forces. Air power really decided the campaign against Germany in the West. With no fighter cover, Allied planes paralyzed attempts to supply and reinforce German forces. They also bombed, rocketed and strafed German formations in the field. The Germans had much better tanks and equipment, but they had only small numbers of them; and when a Tiger tank appeared, the Allies just called in the Thunderbolts or RAF Typhoons.

In my view, Germany's goose was cooked even before the landings occurred. That is not to denigrate the efforts of Allied troops on D-Day. It's simply to say that no modern army can win a conventional war with no air power.[/quote]

Hmm I thought Germany sent the first jet fighters into action during the closing phases of WWII? I believe they got very high kill/loss ratios too? If D-day had failed then who knows Germany could have regained air power over time? These things were built in secret bomb proofish facilities I think.

Germany also was developing an atomic bomb and with the V2 a way to target distant cities without the need of air power. Who knows what would of happened had D-day failed but its interesting to speculate.
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Palehorse
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Re: D-Day

Post by Palehorse »

In all honesty, the high water mark came sometime between the beginning of Operation Barbarossa (Summer 1941) and Pearl Harbor. You can't defeat an enemy with an untouchable economy; the U.S. economy was sufficient to power the allies, whilst the economic base of Germany and Japan was constantly being raided.
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joe4holly
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Re: D-Day

Post by joe4holly »

Was talking about this in history the other day. If Hitler didnt attack Russia and went to finish England off Germany could of won the war. Then it would of just been USA, Russia and Italy?.

+1 to Kaiser, It was also the same with WW1. When the treaty was signed the german people thought they could still win with there huge army and stuff but in real life it wasnt much left.
etrips888
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Re: D-Day

Post by etrips888 »

Yeah my history teacher back in high school always told us if we left his class knowing one thing, it was that never attack Russia in the winter (Hitler, Napoleon)

Another interesting part of D-Day is something I picked up from the history channel was about the massive amount of espionage that went on trying to fool the Germans into believing D-Day was happening somewhere else. Made it seem like if it wasn't for that spy work, landing at Normandy would have been impossible as they probably would have fortified that whole beach much better than they did.
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Highlander999
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Re: D-Day

Post by Highlander999 »

[quote=""joe4holly""]Was talking about this in history the other day. If Hitler didnt attack Russia and went to finish England off Germany could of won the war. Then it would of just been USA, Russia and Italy?.[/quote]

Yep pretty much the same for us in the 1st semester (in a bit more depth ;) ) If Hitler had left Russia alone, more then likely this would be a completely different Europe.

[quote=""etrips888""]Yeah my history teacher back in high school always told us if we left his class knowing one thing, it was that never attack Russia in the winter (Hitler, Napoleon)[/quote]

You all budding generals or something? :p
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severebeating
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Re: D-Day

Post by severebeating »

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]D-Day was risky, but I really don't think the Allies could have "blown it" so to speak. The Germans had no sea power, no air force and were running low on fuel by June 1944. Even if they had stopped the initial beach landings, the Allies would have just sat back and bombed the hell out of them with their Air Forces. [/quote]

While you are accurate in everything you say, the war would have waged on for years until the Allies took back the continent. This could not be accomplished with strictly air power/superiority. The risk here was not losing the war or "blowing it" (as you put it), but the immense potential human loss of lives to cross the channel & gain a beach head to the continent. (10K-40+K was expected) In addition, if the beach head had failed, the war would have raged on & more lives would have been lost.

BTW, Have you seen Letters from Iwo Jima or Flags of our Fathers?
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Kaiser_von_Nuben
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Re: D-Day

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

^ Yes, those are damn good movies!

I also think you are right that the war would have dragged on for a while longer if the landings failed in 1944. Hitler made a colossal blunder by not allowing his Panzer reserves to counterattack the Normandy beachhead immediately. He had large armored forces in the Pas de Calais, which he refused to divert to Normandy even after it was clear that the landings were not a feint. I heard one story that Hitler was asleep on June 6 and no one wanted to wake him up to say the invasion was on. If he had gotten his ass out of bed and released the Panzers, Omaha would have been even more of a bloodbath than it was without them... can you imagine if the Germans sent Tiger tanks to support the defending infantry? It would have been a massacre.

This is yet another example of Hitler's corporal-like military thought. He should have listened to his elite Prussian officer corps more often. On the other hand, maybe it's good he didn't; otherwise he probably would have won the war!
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IndyBrit
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Re: D-Day

Post by IndyBrit »

The war was "over" at Stalingrad, in that the outcome was determined at that time if not the final date and total casualties.

Nonetheless, none of that mattered to the brave souls that had to storm the beaches of Normandy. Just because the war was decided, it was only decided because those that fought it did their jobs (including dying and such) from that point forward.

The Germans had the first jets involved in the war, although the allies also built a few jets. Both sides also built rocket powered planes. The problem with the German jets were that they were so few, and they didn't really have any armaments designed to take advantage of their speed. They also had a fantastic maintenance schedule, requiring engine rebuilds every couple of flights. They had high kill ratios, but were ultimately a very minor factor.

The Germans did build the atomic bomb, they just did it in America. They probably didn't have enough scientists left in Germany or the infrastructure to complete the thing, but the Allies didn't know that until the war was over.
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