Indian Monastery Idea

[Cyclohexane]

I have not tried India in multiplayer because I do not have a high enough Asian HC to create a new civilization (only tried Japan so far) but I was working on my Unit Comparison spreadsheet and for the cost, the India White Tiger is one of the best pets in the game (only the War Dog and Orangutan is more effective on a cost basis but both of those are limited to 5 and the Orangutan can only be spawned from a Wokou Junk). Here are their Colonial Stats: 120 Food, 15 damage, 156HP, 10% hand resists, and 5 speed.

I was wondering if sending Holy Refuge as the first shipment is the way to go for India on most maps. Here are the effects: Ships a Monastery Rickshaw, Monastery improvements are 50% cheaper (coin, food, wood), and +1 villager.

You get 1 villager which is not bad (100 wood) and a wagon that transforms into a monastery. In addition, you get 20 XP for the building as a bonus towards the next shipment. Having -50% cheaper church upgrades means you can research white tiger training for 38 food 38 gold in Discovery. That means that during the Discovery to Colonial transition, you can get some large treasures and easily make your resources back. You will also know immediately what mercenaries are on the map for age 3 and can possibly use outlaws to supplement your 10 white tigers (no true counters) until you survive to Age 3 for the nice shipments. Late game, the other church upgrades that effect healing, elephant speed aura, stomp ability are useful and much cheaper. Possibly the Atonement shipment (lower population outlaws and ability to spawn Jat Lancers) would be a card worth having in your deck…

So what I am suggesting is sort of a delayed FF using the Taj Mahal in Colonial. This will give you 500 Gold for outlaws and combine with Tigers for protection. The cease fire can be used when you are in trouble and need 10 more tigers. Agra Fort may be another possibility but if you are using outlaws and trying to get to Fort, the 500g will be more useful.

What do you think?

[I__CHAOS__I]

I tried lots of different strats with age 1 monastery shipments (not just india)
best I had was a fast blind monk rush with india on yellow river, 5 blind monks 1-shot kill a villy.

Also funny is the kamikaze outlaw strat that comes in catamaran for 500 coin, you will be totally housed, but have a lot of siege power + you can still ship native shipments (10 tiger claws)

[36drew]

Could this strategy be modified to be backed up with sepoys? Would be solid then.

[Cyclohexane]

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]I tried lots of different strats with age 1 monastery shipments (not just india)
best I had was a fast blind monk rush with india on yellow river, 5 blind monks 1-shot kill a villy.

Also funny is the kamikaze outlaw strat that comes in catamaran for 500 coin, you will be totally housed, but have a lot of siege power + you can still ship native shipments (10 tiger claws)[/quote]

The kamikaze outlaw strat seems like it would work to cripple opponent as long as your opponent is not a cavalry civ (6Thuggee are light infantry). If ship the 10 Dacoit instead (less siege and HI), light infantry would tear it up before you caused any real damage (lose 1 shipment, house self, and 500 gold).

Did you try what I proposed? If so, how did it turn out? Since tigers have no counter, they will last longer and combine with cease fire, can spawn them only when needed (10 can spawn in 10 secs) allowing you to get to Age 3 where India is powerful.

[quote=""36drew""]Could this strategy be modified to be backed up with sepoys? Would be solid then.[/quote]

It is not really a strategy, just an idea I never tested to get to Age 3 safely.

I imagine if you age with an Agra fort first, yes Sepoys could be spawned. I said outlaws since you already have a church, will not need 200 wood for a barracks (or be forced to use the crappy Agra wonder), tigers have no pop requirements and that will free a little for the pop expensive outlaws. Only a few would be needed to supplement the tigers unless you are being rushed hard (500 will buy quite a few outlaws, just to get to Age 3).

If you aged with agra fort, get 2 at age up, can make 5 locally, then make 10 tigers. Not a bad defensive force.

[I__CHAOS__I]

well you get the 10 Dacoits (the thuggees are crappy imho) very early, it will be hard for your opponent to even get a rax up. You can also train a few urangutang-pets from those catamarans btw, still it's suicidal
the tiger-claw shipments pws ant light infantry as well and doesnt need pop to be shipped

blind monk rush is good though, and you can add tigers
(there is also a card that reduces the pop to 1 for the monks and enables OP Jat Lancers in age III)

[ZoRPrimE]

I tried to make a pet strat work using white and siberian tigers from exploere upgrade card. never really panned out for me. but, I've heard king Kara or Sector 7G tell me about a loss to an India player who used a lot of pets early. Those siberian tigers are expensive! I think it can do well but scarecly overcomes the bad shape india starts off in.

[I__CHAOS__I]

Those tigers (both) are one of the best pets in the game
L&C used em once against my strelet rush and they do pwn hard, allthough he said it was hard to keep producing em due to high cost

[lordandcount]

The biggest disadvantage is when the opponent hit and run, then you will be pwnd

[Cyclohexane]

[quote=""lordandcount""]The biggest disadvantage is when the opponent hit and run, then you will be pwnd[/quote]

That is true except I am talking about using them for defense. In those circumstances, he is wasting time while you are aging to 3 when you will have superior units.

If he is hit and running, he is also taking heavy losses from your TC. If you keep him at bay, you are set. Just keep running your tigers back into TC firing range. Tigers are not expensive, they cost 120 food which is more expensive than a musketeer and cheaper than a Janissary in villager seconds plus you already have healing power to make them last longer. However they have no natural counter and can be made to counter anything. That means they have no cost effective counter. HI works best to counter pets but if you are on a map with Thuggee or Outlaw Rifles, a few of those can take out a lot of HI, especially in your own base. I hate outlaw units because of their population costs and setup animation, but Tigers are 0 pop and the setup animation can be worked around by using them only as defense in your base. You will be able to get about 5 if you age up with 500 gold. 5 of those guys go a long way in defense. That means your first colonial card can be wood for housing / villagers. You still will not need a barracks or stable until later due to the free church / saloon.

Tigers can also score you some super treasures early in the game when it matters and can be healed with your monks. Also, if you send the Monastery card as I suggested, getting the improved healing technology is 50% cheaper and improves healing 67% making it easy to afford early greatly improving all of your units effectiveness.

I’m no India expert but I think the majority of players are playing India wrong. I cannot see a better start with India, especially on treasure rich maps. Combined with outlaws (and possibly atonement), you can have a balanced defensive army in Colonial and can break out of your shell in Fortress.

And since tigers auto upgrade, you will have an annoying unit to spam the entire game forcing him to always make HI or cavalry. If he goes cavalry, the Zamburak is one of the best anti-cavalry counters in the game (although not much use to anything else) and has super upgrade cards. You may also get lucky with the saloon mercs in age 3...