Is Japan overated ?

[36drew]

The only thing I feel like adding to this thread is that my real world experience seems to point to japan being a very strong civ -- slightly OP.
Sometimes the numbers don't turn out to be all they seem in reality.

Its hard to value on some things -- for example -- can you put a price of the fact that your muskets will deter the enemy cavalry? Not a chance.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

japan being a very strong civ -- slightly OP.

People! Japan is a good civ, no way near OP overall. It's as good as French or Otto on tp map imo and they are only a bit better than Iro. How can it be OP when we've got China, Dutch, Sioux and Spain all better than Japan? What an imbalanced game we've got here heh? I think it's more of a problem of the other lower civs rather than Japan's.

[Navarone_Guy]

Sporting... I don't know if a predominantly Japanese player's view on the civ is entirely reliable...

[Macavity]

Here's some facts. Japan is freefalling in the overall win percentage. In fact India just passed them. Here's the bottom six win percentages according to ESO.

9: France - 47.94%
10: India - 47.39%
11: Britian - 47.32%
12: Spain - 46.95%
13: Japan - 46.50%
14: Portugal-43.22%

[Navarone_Guy]

Woah. That's odd... Maybe they're like the British were before; all the noobs play them cause they are the standard civ. I find it very hard to believe that Japan is the 2nd worst civ.

[KingKaramazov]

They AREN'T. We've already been through this.

Overall win % means NOTHING unless you want to make the assertion that balance is actually a strong factor among players who are PR <20, which is the vast majority of the ESO population. The fact is, for players PR <20, balance is almost never the deciding factor in games. So win% statistics mean nothing unless they are specific to certain groups of players and matchups.

Even then, it's hard to draw any concrete conclusions.

Japan suffers from a particularly low win % because a crapload of noobs play them. End of story.

[Navarone_Guy]

Yeah, you have a point. For example, the janissary rush and the Ottomans dominate the lower levels cause it's easy to perform, fast, and powerful, but higher-ranked players can slaughter it easily.

[I__CHAOS__I]

those stats are worthless imho

I've started playing japan and they feel a bit on the OP side
Very easy to play
Very OP units
Very hard to raid

some very nice aspects:
cards you can ship 2x
2 explorers
can water-boom without a dock

what they miss a bit are outlined strats
No real hard rush
No real solid FF
No real boom (shrine boom is too slow afaik)
This lack makes em unable to exploit the weakness of some civs

(compare them to otto: jans rush/spahi FF/FI/Silk Road boom... All clear strats that can be used in specific situations)

Overall I'd say they pay off for players with good/excellent micro: get the most out of few units!

[36drew]

[quote=""KingKaramazov""]
The fact is, for players PR <20, balance is almost never the deciding factor in games. .[/quote]

Ain't that the truth. Once you get a little up there, balance becomes huge. I could play india until the cows come home but I wouldn't have a hope at competing vs. a lot of civs.

[Soccerman771]

[quote=""36drew""][quote=""KingKaramazov""]
The fact is, for players PR <20, balance is almost never the deciding factor in games. .[/quote]

Ain't that the truth. Once you get a little up there, balance becomes huge. I could play india until the cows come home but I wouldn't have a hope at competing vs. a lot of civs.[/quote]

India till the cows come home.. :roll:

How very punny!

[Sporting_Lisbon]

can water-boom without a dock

Isn't 3+5+4 settler cards (like spain or germans sw cards) a better boom?

Very hard to raid

Well, that's because they have no hunts. If you didn't go for hunts and used just berries and mills it would be hard to raid you too. It's their civ bonus, it's like complaining Ports are OP because they have two tcs in colo :\

Here's some facts. Japan is freefalling in the overall win percentage. In fact India just passed them. Here's the bottom six win percentages according to ESO.

Yes, it has been said lots of times that those stats aren't facts.

No real hard rush
No real solid FF
No real boom (shrine boom is too slow afaik)

Yet, they are easy to play? I don't think they are that easy to play, just easier than other civs.

I don't know if a predominantly Japanese player's view on the civ is entirely reliable...

Obviously it isn't entirely reliable! Still, I know the civ quite good and I can still make a point about japs. The same way my view isn't entirely reliable the non-jap player isn't entirely reliable too, as he hasn't played japs thoroughly.

[I__CHAOS__I]

Sporting, I was not complaining, just telling how I experienced the civ so far. I think its a nice civ overall that only need a small nerf on the unit level and maybe a little boost in shrine rate or villy cap.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Ah ok then. Yes, they need to be changed, small nerf and small boost and they are fine.

[severebeating]

[quote=""36drew""]
Ain't that the truth. Once you get a little up there, balance becomes huge. I could play india until the cows come home but I wouldn't have a hope at competing vs. a lot of civs.[/quote]

What the hey are you talking about? Cows coming home is very important to India.