KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

[MNBob]

Since the game was released I did not think Monk Disciples were too strong. But now that I've really looked and see how many upgrades that have available, I think their is a problem. Fortress Disciples are really strong and the Chinese Disciple FF is definitely a viable strategy for good 1v1 players.

I think the biggest problem is the number of disciples sent when you use the age 3 wonder = 12. How does this make sense?
age 2 = 5, age 3 = 12, age4 = 14, age 5 = 26

Doesn't that look like ES was balancing the numbers and forgot to change age 3 at some point?

Also, KK you are correct about that one Monastery tech. One tech does increase Monk disciples by 20%.

[StrokeyBlofeld]

12 does seem a bit much for age 3, perhaps 8 would be better.

[I__CHAOS__I]

the monastery offers 2 upgrades, one is 20% boost, the other an aura of 10% for your monk, that last one is bugged btw, the aura also affects other units (OP OP OP)
the chinese FF is still rather new, most people have been rushing with china since the release. I guess some good counter strats will show up soon, but disciples might get nerfed in the next patch regardless

[MNBob]

Yes, I know about the bugged aura too.

I was using FF with china right from the start. But I did it for hand mortars. Then I felt like I was laming and and I stopped which is why I guess I'm always playing weaker civs. But now I'm going to FF for disciples and hand mortars and see if I can finally get around to improving my 1v1 play. I'm finding it kind of ridiculous how many units disciples can beat.

[KingKaramazov]

The number you get is definitely a problem - you can get to Age 3 and suddenly beat most rushing forces simply because upgraded disciples > most colonial units.

It's also simply an issue because they train so quickly and they are so cheap - you can be beating somebody's army and then suddenly out pop 5 disciples which are in many ways better than coyote runners...it's plain dumb.


I think they need a train time increase or a cost increase, that monastery tech should be changed to upgrade the Monk and not the Disciples, and the Age 3 shipment of disciples should be changed to 8 or 9 instead of 12.


In any case, something should be done. They are far lamer than War Dogs ever were.

[sylvalex311]

I 1 v 1 KingK against his disciples and they rocked! I had a pretty good Japanese Musket rush and it was beaten back once he hit fortress. I'm probably about a PR 20 or so on TAD and I got dominated...

[I__CHAOS__I]

taking out the monk ASAP is important just like the iroquois rambo chief
and it's rather expensive to revive him. Maybe a few spies (for the civs that have access to those) are not too bad? without the monk, it's just a matter of killing the 12 from age up and the ones he still had.
I guess spain FF with rods&dogs will do fine, and some good heavy cav units. I wouldnt be surprised to see more spanish soon.

[Navarone_Guy]

Taking out the monk is nearly pointless because he has a good 1125 hp in colonial, while his monks are the ones with all the attack and low HP.

Needs an overall nerf.

[KingKaramazov]

Plus it's so easy to just have the monk hang back fromt he fight and spam disciples...he's like a walking disciple barracks with 1600 hp in fortress.

[I__CHAOS__I]

monk has 675 HP in colonial btw, not 1125, unless with cards or something
in fortress 1575 HP if you age with the white pagoda

[Navarone_Guy]

Chaos, the monk/disciple boosting wonder is the way to go for a disciple spam. It's what brings up the monk to 1125 hp and 17 attack.

[I__CHAOS__I]

but it's used to go to fortress as far as I've seen in replays
to go to colonial the porcelain tower is much better
anyway, it's not how fights are supposed to be, so nerfing those is def a good idea. People should make real military units :/

[Navarone_Guy]

I've never really tried a disciple FF, and have been having great success sending the 5 disciple card in age 1, and having an army of 11 free disciples from aging up, starting, etc. Just use those guys with your chu ko nu and steppe riders and you're set in age 2.

[ZoRPrimE]

I've had a pretty good explorer vs. explorer battle vs. another chinese player with the Monk/Rax. Add the Heal all units card to the mix (aged up mid fight) and queue up more diciples and sent my 7 riders. I think it was the longest explorer vs. explorer combat in early game I've ever seen.

Be interesting to see the same match up with a damiyo!

[blayzer13]

op op op lol nerf please