The Aztec Puma Rush: Your Answer to Japan Lamers

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Shizle""]I tried this in an unrated game against a 1st lt. when the strat was first posed and he was prepared for me. I remember being ready at a decent time too. Just tried it one time though, should get back in the saddle and try again. Highlander must have refined it big-time.[/quote]

Yeah, when people read your strat guides, it's kinda hard to surprise them :-P It's happened to me using my strats, too!

[Highlander999]

Well as I have returned I might as well help you guys out

1) Am I right in saying you're not building a FP, but using your WP to help collect treasures, attack, and saving the 100 FP wd for a 2nd house?

(2) Do you scout out your opponent's base? I'm thinking it would be useful to check where/if a barracks is going up, but, by scouting around your opponent's TC you might alert them to a rush strat and therefore cause them to make more defensive choices when choosing early shipments, etc.

(3) I was trying this strat this morning. I think I've got it going fairly smoothly, but, I get mixed results. At the moment, I wouldn't say it's giving me that edge to get me from 2nd leut to Captain. I'm finding my puma are vunerable to hit and run from LI & minute men. The WC and WP are fairly good at chasing hit and runners (i.e., having lots of hp and not being classed as HI), but still :S. I realise Coyotes come in eventually, but, if enough of the pumas/SK are taken down the attack looses it's momentum and you're left not having taken down the TC, with heavy troop casualties, and a horrible eco. It's possible to recover still and win the game - which I did this morning - but that's questionable against players the same rank or higher than me.

(4) Lastly, do you wait until you have WC, WP, Skulls, any pets, and 11 Puma's before moving in to attack? Or, do you trickle in as the arrive, e.g. wave 1 = WC, WP, Skulls, wave 2 = 5 Puma followed closely by 6 Puma? I was waiting until the force was complete before moving in to keep surprise.

Is it possible to give me some pointers? Where I might be going wrong?

I was finding CTRL-1'ing my WC, WP, SKs, and any pets coverted useful. And then having the Pumas on CTRL-2.

Edit:

(5) If your opponent has an outpost up, do you take that down with/after the barracks or do you leave the outpost firing on you and go for the TC still?

1) Yeah I don't build a FP. I actually either use the 100 wood for either my WH or the extra house depending on start up crates.

2) I will generally send a converted guardian to circle his base, just go get a general idea and see where his tc is.

3) I would highly doubt your chances of the strat failing and still winning the game. Well done though if you have, it would have taken a lot of effort. I also send my Skull Knights to chase after any LI with the WP and the WC. That way my pumas are focused on his tc and if he bumps those 4 guys off, my mace or coyote from my shipment have arrived.

4) I wait till I have as many pumas as possible. I generally move when the puma shipment arrives. I also send my pets out first to take the first hits and give me useful LOS.

5) I would go for the tc first, then the outpost.

If you want feel free to post a recording and I'll get back to you. Remember I wouldn't use this vs Ports, Iro or an Aztec mirror

I think India was on the list to use this strat on. If they put a fort up near their TC do you still go in? If so, do you try to take the fort down first, or the TC under fire?

Get the TC down. The fort doesn't do enough damage and you will really hurt him with his TC down. Probs best to pull back though and build your army up, once his TC is down and then go for the fort.

This strat has been going fairly well for me. When it works, it works very well. In my experience it absolutely crushes Japan.

I also use Ctrl Grp 1 for my WC, WP, SK and converted guardians and start my attack once I have these and at least 11 pumas (6 shipped + 5 built), at this point my vills are split 6F/3C. Once my attack has begun, I often can queue up another Puma here and there, which really helps and often start arriving the same time as my 10 Mace with 9 Mace/5 Coyotes not far behind.

Good to hear this is working for you. I really do enjoy beating those Japan lamers with it I generally have the villis split on 5F/4C, but that is just my preference, I feel it makes those puma come out just that bit quicker. But yeah looks like you've got it working well.

Hi all. This strat caught my eye cos I enjoy the rush civs. Have tried this strat 6 times now against people my rank (2nd Lieut) and been owned every time. I get the rax and stable down but not tc. MM etc clean up along with 1st shipment of troops for ops. What sort of time do you need to be attacking? Perhaps Im too slow??? I have 111 puma and the rest good to go a 5min 15secs. Without getting the TC down my eco is stuffed so i get beaten......... Would love any feedback cos it seems like a cool strat

My answers to Sun_Tzu should help out Anymore questions, feel free to PM me or ask me on ESO.

Having said that, I think Highlander suggested this strat helped move him from 2nd Leut to Captain.

That was because this strat was very easy for me to use when I could only play left handed after my injury. But yeah, it shot me up the ranks, so that my other gameplay also improved as I played against better opponents in team matches.

but I'm curious as to how HIGHLANDER went from 2nd Lt to Major with this, assuming he had decent opponents.

I think I was major very briefly before losing a few team matches

assuming he had decent opponents. Can't seee how this works v Otts either given they have very fast age times?

I have beaten Lieut Colonels with this. Nearly all my matches with this strat are done on QS, so I have very little choice over my opponent.

Oh and just ask Drew about how this does vs Otto

Have also worked at that once the 11 pumas are ready its wise to switch a gold villie to wood so you can get more houses going. Otherwise you cant get any vills out after the age.

This is a very hard rush, I would not build the villi and instead use the resources/pop space on your military instead

I tried this in an unrated game against a 1st lt. when the strat was first posed and he was prepared for me. I remember being ready at a decent time too. Just tried it one time though, should get back in the saddle and try again. Highlander must have refined it big-time.

If you post a recording of you trying it, I'll have a look at it and help you improve it, if you want

Highlander claimed that the strat he posted was not his top build and that he refined it to bettter his eco, but to my knowledge never posted his top build.

Got to be able to beat Drew. Also I found people on ESO trying to use this vs me, so I decided I would keep myself one step in front of everyone else.

I find that this start works ok against players at my lower level and does do very well against Japan. One thing that is critical to this working well is to add units from your war hut ASAP, a straight rush with 11 Pumas, WC, WP and a few creeps will rarely work without shipped units and built units arriving quickly. If they don't arrive after the rax is down and before the TC is attacked it's gg, imho

Yep. Pumas by themselves without backup arrivng = GG

This strat beat me ottos.

My best ever victories

Yeah, when people read your strat guides, it's kinda hard to surprise them It's happened to me using my strats, too!

Which is why I kept a variation of it, for only me

BTW, for everyone, it is Tom not Highlander. Another thing I started doing was hiding my FB. I started putting it behind/to the side of my enemy's TC so it was harder to find.

[Tatltael]

this strat killed me :[

[hallchr]

I hope I never have to play this strat. This strat is the reason I place my Tc's close together and use colonial militia.

[Aaryn_GenD]

seriously, what's so special about this "strat"?
you just build pumas and send them to have nice siege :s

also japan can do something very similar

[Shizle]

Lol, what's so special? Well, if you completely ignore the fact that he's using this BO to beat some very good players, then it's nothing special. Nothing at all.

From your perspective, a monkey could do it.

[Tubruk]

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]seriously, what's so special about this "strat"?
you just build pumas and send them to have nice siege :s

also japan can do something very similar[/quote]

exactly thats what makes this strat special, 11 of the best pikeman (non merc) units in your base with 2 SK your warrior priest, war chief and maybe 3 JPK, and CR/mace on the way. with your rax down, and if your not japan your going to be most probably housed. japan can probably do something similar but it would be significantly weaker and more similar to a harass than a siege "rush"

[Aaryn_GenD]

you didn't get what i mean, and plz calm down shizle^^

i don't mean that this is no strat, i mean that this is not something that one should write down. it is common sense to think of this. and yes, everybody who's not a complete beginner could figure out that "BO"

of course i know this is very effective in some cases, but that's not my point.

and with the japan similar thingy, i mean the sohei rush(11 sohei age 2 mercs) combined with good faith agreements, onin war and spain consulates merchant marine tech.

[Tubruk]

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]you didn't get what i mean, and plz calm down shizle^^

i don't mean that this is no strat, i mean that this is not something that one should write down. it is common sense to think of this. and yes, everybody who's not a complete beginner could figure out that "BO"

of course i know this is very effective in some cases, but that's not my point.

and with the japan similar thingy, i mean the sohei rush(11 sohei age 2 mercs) combined with good faith agreements, onin war and spain consulates merchant marine tech.[/quote]

yes, but some lower level players require instructions on how to execute a build order or have never heard of a build order. so a detailed build order like this may benefit them greatly.

figuring out and executing a strat effectively are two completely different things. and "it is common sense to think of this" so did you think of this strat? and are you saying every other aoe3 player who didnt think of this strat lacks common sense?

im not a japan player so dont really know anyother strat than early ashi harass or shrine boom

[Aaryn_GenD]

tubruk, my point is, you don't need a strat for every little thing in the game.
would be hilarious, if someone needs necessarily a bo for using the sea, otherwise he won't do it.

imo just play the game, if i for example need an idea, i watch a rec and that's it

yes, i would think of that lol, i love high siege in colonial

[Tubruk]

i know you dont need a strat for every game you go in but you cannot say they would not benefit a new player greatly.

and the end of the day the game is all about adaption to the map, the opposition, and strategy both sides are using. but a solid build is a good first step for new players, thats all i meant but couldnt word it correctly.

and yeah your right about using the sea, its an essential part of the game but you have to know when to use it. and iv noticed new players dont use it as much as they should.

i played a game against a captain, and at the end of the game said "im not confident on the sea", how can a captain not be used to sea battles?

Canoe spam ftw!

[Highlander999]

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]tubruk, my point is, you don't need a strat for every little thing in the game.
would be hilarious, if someone needs necessarily a bo for using the sea, otherwise he won't do it.

imo just play the game, if i for example need an idea, i watch a rec and that's it

yes, i would think of that lol, i love high siege in colonial[/quote]

You'd be surprised at how many minor details are required, i.e. sending 300 wood as a shipment first, your actual deck. This strat relies heavily on timing as well, and that is the main reason why it requires a BO.

[hallchr]

Portugal with colonial militia beats this strategy. 135 damage per shot coming from two close tc's plus an ass load of minutemen is lethal to any combination especially to a melle combo.

[cleeduz]

[quote=""hallchr""]Portugal with colonial militia beats this strategy. 135 damage per shot coming from two close tc's plus an *** load of minutemen is lethal to any combination especially to a melle combo.[/quote]

If you read Toms' strat he doesn't recommend it against Aztecs, Iros or Portugal.

It is a good BO, we all know it is a not super technical semi-FI. It is a very quick seige rush, effective against Japan or any other slow aging civ, particularly if the opponent does not scout well and doesn't see it coming.

It has worked well for me, in some instances, it's not my main Aztec strat, but it is another arrow in my quiver, so to speak.


@ Aaryn_GenD -- I am a complete beginner and yes, I wrote it down. I'm such a newb I even practiced it, and have won games with it against people with a much higher PR than me. Don't have any issues with docks though.:-P

[Sun_Tzu1]

No, BOs are useful. Particulary when sharing a strat. The whole success (or otherwise) of this strat relies on getting your B.O. down really tightly so you can get-in-there at the first available opportunity. Even a small no. of seconds can make the difference between a shipment having somewhere to arrive or not, a new batch of troops being trained before a barracks is taken down, etc.

Yes, you do need to adapt (around civ, restarting resources, etc). But, the essence of this strat remains the same. Almost mechanically.

I've got over 500 Aztec games under my belt in TAD, even more from TWC. And, I wouldn't include the "moves" of this strat as being within the "range" of plays I used before reading the strat.

However, I still remain undecided about the value of this strat having tried it myself. If your opponent manages to ship a batch of L.I. earlyish, houses 10 settlers (so you take TC fire), and sends MM that's easily enough to make your attack run out of steam - steam to take the TC down. And then you're left with a horrible eco.