N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

I dont use control groups I dunno why a sarge would, heh?

I use control groups... check out my win % ::/ ops:

kk - here's the lbow/hussar secret: keep the bows in a mass and never micro them in a way that makes them move. Then, take whichever longbows are being attacked in the front and run them willy nilly back and forth across your front line (or just run away can work, too). The hussars bump into each other chasing him, and end up killing very few longbows. You need to micro your mass bows onto specific cav units (about 15 bows to a hussar +/- seems to be beneficial) but make sure you don't do it in a way that makes the firing bows walk. It also helps to hold ALT during the battle and micro small groups of bows into the severely injured hussars. I had a group of about 35 longbows kill about 12 hussars in a game recently, and I lost maybe 10 longbows. I'm certain the guy wasn't doing any micro, but his hussars were attacking so they weren't just passing through. They did seem aggressive, I'm imagining attack-move was on. Yes, that's more resources in lbows than resources in hussars (~5300 to 3300 villie-seconds), but it is against their direct counter and when you see bows at 3:1 own cav the visual effect is stunning.

This doesn't work against players that know how cav pathing problems work and that will focus small groups of cav into specific units. Splitting the cav into two groups, without more, is still not enough if you simply allow the computer "intelligence" to run those cav, because my strat does not rely on the mass of the longbows running away so you have nothing to flank. It is risky, in that the "pocket" collapses rather quickly when things go wrong. If you slip below that 3:1 type ratio it will be a catastrophic fail and you would have been better off with a fighting withdrawl (run the mass away and trickle sacrificial bows back to slow him down).

Here's the lbow/cannon secret. You have to spread out your mass somewhat, because a couple of errant shots into your mass and you will be done. Trickle a few frontal longbows (maybe 6/7) individually to melee the cannons (either click next to the cannon or hit melee mode and then attack the cannon). The cannon guy has two choices, shoot for the individuals or shoot for the mass. If he shoots for the mass, run the mass away and the melees will engage that much more quickly (plus your guys naturally spread out). If he shoots for the individuals, micro the masses onto the cannons. Many of the individuals will get there anyway because they were not in a group. You can get out of this spot, especially with the two cannons (not a group of 5!) in pretty decent shape. Of course you can't do this if he has loads of other units about, but what I'm saying is you can generally get the other units to chase you and stay out of range of the cannons until their ranks are thinned out.

I'm not saying it's desirable to be without pikes, and ofc if you know what he's doing and you know you're faster a good old fashioned pike rush is just the thing. What I'm saying is that you don't have to be all that good at knowing what he's bringing. The nice thing about longbows is that, when you have the numbers and he's not a micro-er, longbows counter everything that early French FF can bring. Mass longbow eliminates his goons, skirms, and muskets, and the two cannons and a reasonable number of cav are manageable. If he gets a bunch of cannons or cuirs, then you need a new plan, of course. Cuirs are generally disfavored age III though, and if you see them it's not a big deal to bring some muskets or pikes along. Mass longbow also counters most of his age 2 strategies.

well.... the hussar thing would work against probly 1st lt down. but the cannon thing sounds iffy. if he had muskets, or practically any units around the cannons, the ones you put in melee would be slaughtered, and then the cannons would own your longbows that were at range. personally i would spam pikes as soon as he hit age three, then go up yourself. with 25 pikes going fo rhis cannons, and he has goons/skirms, you should do pretty well. and then, with the op brit eco, spam about 4 falcs of your own. gg

and what happens if he moves musks or skirm or something beetween cannon and ur pikes, i wouldnt recommend to make pikemen against cannon this doesnt work XD

I'm talking about the special situation of an FF/semi-FF. There is that cusp moment where the cards are hitting, and his Fortress age is going to either take off or be snuffed out. Very often during those times you have lightly guarded cannons coming out the back of the TC, and meleed units (pikes or lbows) are a good choice for taking those out.

In general battle, not so much. Although pikes running out of the trees behind a guy's army have taken out cannons on more than one occasion that I've seen. It's certainly not a reliable tactic at that point but it's fair-to-middling as desperation move.

thanster, are you in N3O anymore?

I agree about mass LB's against a French semi-FF in the narrow circumstances Indy describes. If you can knock down the shipped falcs without losing too many LB's, a big mass can easily handle skirm/goon and a couple cuirs. Anything more than that will give you grief, but that was Indy's point.

Hejurmhoanni showed that mass bows can take down the Spanish FF, too. Check out the rec v. Drew; it puts the LB theory to the test. Granted, HeJurm had some hussars and muskets as a meatshield, but the LB's carried the day against lancers and cannons. The whole point of FF'ing is to throw relatively few, though superior, Age 3 units against weak Age 2 units. LB's represent an Age 2 unit that--en masse--can stop almost any small fortress army.

It CAN work in the right circumstances. But as Indy said, even a small deviation from those circumstances will result in 'epic fail' of the harshest variety.

german ff always worked great for me vs brits with skirm uhlan combo, vs hejurms brits too :p i think a ff is really good vs brits especially if you can raid some vills before (700 gold+ 2 ulans, or 5 hussar semi ff)

Free uhlans trickled throughout has always been a big problem for me. One of two bad things happens - 1) they are used to raid me and therefore I'm quite a bit weaker when the FF hits, or 2) they are added to the FF troop mass making things very dicey at that early battle. There can be 7 or 10 free Uhlans added to that force by the time the first couple of age III cards are played. That's a huge difference even if the FF time is a skoshe slower than with France.

Of course, if 36Drew is the opponent, both bad things happen at the same time.

I remember a Rec where Ourk played Brits vs Dutch and pushed hard with Lbows/Pikes and took out 4 Falcs with Lbows.

I remember a game vs DHD (i think) where i masses 6-7 falcs vs longbows and lost em all in split seconds... they auto target buildings while the lbs pierced em like true junkies

Falcs should be microed, but it's really hard.

You can either choose to not micro and hope that they will attack the units, or you have to be really good at microing them so they won't "unpack" themselves, as you would say in AoK.

cannonmicro is the easiest kind of micro.

A lot can go wrong. If you micro to a unit and it dies before it fires your cannon may move instead. Any time you click, you risk confusing it and delaying a shot. Any shot is a big event and a screwup or delay can be a problem.