N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

Hi guys. Lately I have been experimenting with the French. I really like their xbow/pike capacity in colonial and obviously their late-game is legendary with unstoppably upped cuirs. But there is such a quirky aspect to the French: Their capacity to upgrade and effectively use native troops. I would like to know if any of you have leveraged this ability.

First, has anyone put together a map-by-map guide for available natives? I have started taking some notes but won't post it unless no one else has done it. From what I've researched, it looks like most natives cost lots of wood, so I think it would be important to have both wood shipments in a native deck.

Second, which natives are best? Not all maps have really strong natives. Personally I like the rattan shield, tiger claw, cree tracker and cheyenne lancer. Navajo rifles and villie-killing riders look good, too. The Inca Humanica is a super pikeman. Add in the upgrade cards and these guys could really rock. I am working on some build orders to utilize these natives. Combined with xbows, and the native treaties shipment, you can get a powerful, balanced army pretty fast (for example: 8 rattans, 8 xbows and 5 pikes).

What have people done with natives in the past? I'm embarrassed to say I haven't paid much attention to them until now. Are they worth pursuing? I've seen some expert French recs where they really seem to tip the scales.

I've tried natives exactly once and failed horribly. I used ATP on Great Plains and had 5 of 6 TP's in 7 mins. Native shipment and didn't need pop space. They were just too weak.

Have you read the minor Native guide on Cyclo's guide?

Couple of points to consider:

• Bhakti Temple Tiger Claw, Disciple, and Shaolin Temple Rattan Shield do not receive penalty damage versus ranged cavalry (only heavy infantry in melee counters directly).

• Udasi Temple Chakram counters heavy infanrty but is classified as heavy infantry as well.

• Native Treaty Card get 600 resource of Indians from each allied tribe (up to 1,800 resources is possible if played on certain maps)

• All natives that can be shipped in like mercenaries are exactly the same except they have MercType1 as their role (meaning spies will have a huge multiplier against them). Units include: Bhakti Tiger Claws, Carib Blowgun Warrior, Cherokee Rifleman, Cheyenne Rider, Comanche Horse Archer, Cree Tracker, Mayan Holcan Spearman, Nootka Clubman, Shaolin Rattan Shields, Sufi War Elephants, Tupi Blackwood Archer, Udasi Chakrams, Zapotec Lightning Warrior, and Zen Sohei.

My general opinion is that natives are good to mix into your main army for meat-shield and pop-space considerations, but going all natives is suicide atm...

Nice info, Soccer. I will check that guide for sure. I also agree that going all-native would never work; rather, the idea should be to use them as an element in the army, not the whole army. I have seen recs in which people hurry to get the natives and wind up neglecting more pressing matters, like managing econ or mixing in balanced forces.

Tiger Claws and Rattans are coyote-like, and that's why I like them. They pwn light inf and don't get damage multipliers against them like rodeleros (HI). They are almost like having cheap cavalry, and they train much faster, too. Obviously I wouldn't rely on them if I faced lots of pikes or muskets

On gp I would ff send cheeper Native card with all Native upgrades with ATP .The cheyenne only cost 110 res I think.

I think i can help u : natives rush is very good. actually i have seen ourks recs only. but there are some strong powerful natives rush i think.

So i'll try to do a Short guide to natives
1st thing u need a deck to do natives rush with very useful card

-Must have cards

-Amerindian treaty
-Card to up coureur skirmishers and indian warrior
-Indian warriors(natives are cheaper and have more hp)
-Two cards to up Natives attack
-I use to add 20 hurons mantlets (optionnal)
-700 wood
-700 gold
-8cross
-700 food (optionnal)
-4coureurs


To my mind Natives rush which are very useful are those:

-Cherokee Pike rush:

Map: Carolina, Bayou

Cherokee Rifleman
Cherokee skirmisher that is accurate at long range.

First available:
Cost: 60 Food 60 Wood
Hitpoints:230
Speed:4
Resists:
10% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x2 vs AbstractHeavyInfantry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 12 6 3
DefendHandAttack 6 0 1.5
DefendRangedAttack 13 16 3
MeleeHandAttack 6 0 1.5
StaggerHandAttack 6 0 1.5
StaggerRangedAttack 13 16 3
VolleyHandAttack 6 0 1.5
VolleyRangedAttack 13 16 3

Pikeman
Archaic heavy infantry. Good against cavalry and buildings.

First available:
Cost: 40 Food 40 Wood
Hitpoints:120
Speed:5
Resists:
10% vs Hand

Bonuses:
x5 vs AbstractCavalry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 32 0 3
CoverBuildingAttack 16 0 3
CoverHandAttack 4 0 1.5
DefendHandAttack 8 0 1.5
MeleeHandAttack 8 0 1.5
and u can had on carolina seminoles archer
-Seminole Sharktooth Bowman
Ranged Native American archer with a short range and high attack.

First available:
Cost: 75 Food 25 Wood
Hitpoints:115
Speed:4.5
Resists:
20% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x2 vs AbstractHeavyInfantry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 10 0 3
DefendHandAttack 8 0 1.5
DefendRangedAttack 16 12 1.5
MeleeHandAttack 8 0 1.5
StaggerHandAttack 8 0 1.5
StaggerRangedAttack 16 12 1.5
VolleyHandAttack 8 0 1.5
VolleyRangedAttack 16 12 1.5


and i did a pikemen cherokee rush here (i dont if it is good but u can take a look =)) : http://www.aoe3clan.com/index.php?name= ... opic&t=967

-Cree pike rush
Map=Yukon,great lakes
Cree rifleman with a good line of sight and long range.

First available:
Cost: 40 Food 80 Wood
Hitpoints:300
Speed:4
Resists:
10% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x2 vs AbstractHeavyInfantry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 12 6 3
DefendHandAttack 4 0 1.5
DefendRangedAttack 10 18 3
MeleeHandAttack 4 0 1.5
StaggerHandAttack 4 0 1.5
StaggerRangedAttack 10 18 3
VolleyHandAttack 4 0 1.5
VolleyRangedAttack 10 18 3

With a replay of mardow : http://www.aoe3clan.com/index.php?name= ... 0197#20197

-Incans rush

-Incan Bolas Warrior
Inca infantry that hurls bolas for a wide area of effect.

First available:
Cost: 40 Food 60 Wood
Hitpoints:200
Speed:4.5
Resists:
10% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x2 vs AbstractHeavyInfantry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 10 0 3
GuardianAttack 8 12 3
HandAttack 4 0 1.5
VolleyAttack 8 12 3

-Incan Huaminca
Inca infantry armed with a flexible spear. Good against cavalry.

First available:
Cost: 100 Food 20 Wood
Hitpoints:170
Speed:5
Resists:
20% vs Hand

Bonuses:
x3 vs AbstractCavalry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 48 0 4
CoverBuildingAttack 24 0 4
CoverHandAttack 8 0 1.5
DefendHandAttack 15 0 1.5
MeleeHandAttack 15 0 1.5

-To my mind they are the best natives we can have cause they have pikemen and an kind of archer.

Apache struggle

Apache cavalery:

Ranged cavalry. Good against cavalry.

First available:
Cost: 90 Food 90 Gold
Hitpoints:200
Speed:7.3
Resists:
30% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x0.5 vs AbstractVillager
x3 vs AbstractHeavyCavalry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 9 0 3
DefendRangedAttack 22 12 3
MeleeHandAttack 11 0 1.5
StaggerRangedAttack 22 12 3

*Be carefull*
Apache cost food and gold instead of wood and food so gather some gold if u want to use them


Asian Natives

They are also good natives with The asian map but -I dont have stat yet so i'll be able to answer u soon

-Soufis-Jesuits rush

Map=Indochina, bornéo

War elephant:

-heavy cavalry
-limit: 6 for 1 TP(trading post)
-cost 200 food 80 wood


Conquistador

-cost 80 food/70 wood
-light cavalry good against melee cavalery
-limit:8 for 1 TP

You can mix your soufis war elephant with cross and Rattan Shield

-Soufis/rattan shield/cross rush

Map:Mongolia, Silk Road
Rattan shield
-cost 50 food 60 wood
-a fast handed swordman good against acher skirmisher and artillery
-limit 15 for 1 TP

Crossbowman
Archaic archer. Good against infantry.

First available:
Cost: 40 Food 40 Wood
Hitpoints:100
Speed:4
Resists:
20% vs Ranged

Bonuses:
x1.5 vs AbstractLightCavalry

Attacks:
Name Damage Range Rate of Fire
BuildingAttack 8 0 3
DefendHandAttack 7 0 1.5
DefendRangedAttack 18 16 3
MeleeHandAttack 7 0 1.5
StaggerHandAttack 7 0 1.5
StaggerRangedAttack 18 16 3
VolleyHandAttack 7 0 1.5
VolleyRangedAttack 18 16 3

And the last Useful rush i use is this one

-Tigercaws/Crossbowman or Tigerclaws/udasi/crossbowman rush

Tigerclaws:
-cost:60 food 50 wood
-a fast handed swordman good against acher skirmisher and artillery
-limit 15 for 1 TP

Chakram:
-cost: 100 food 50 wood
-a light infantry with area damage
-limit 15 for 1 TP

To Conclude: Thanks to aoe3.heavengames.com for units stats. If you have some help to give to me or some advice give it to us . And this is not all natives rush, it is a list of all natives rush i use, so you can imagine others natives rush you can use.

Thanks Jack

Wow, nice info, Jack! It looks like you have already done some experimentation here. I am going to keep practicing build orders before I actually give this a go even in unrated, though :-P A lot of it depends on what map you get.

wait for the next patch (might take an eternity or two tho)
there's a good chance natives get boosted in one way or another
removing the TP sign top right could be one of them, so your opponent doesnt see it when u grab one

I tend to only go natives when I near 200 pop - which I think is far too late. I also don't take native cards as they take up valuable age 2/3 card slots - I think to make a need a special deck for specific maps.

I always remember in vanilla there was an excellent nootka club rush on yukon - the key was to build a tp whilst aging so you could then spam immediately on aging and not have to wait to drop a barracks.

With the 3 TP travois card, I wonder if Sioux may also be worth looking at for natives? You can drop one trade post and two native tps followed by treaties card.

Another bonus of natives is that some have some excellent boosts for villagers and main troops. Question: can anyone confirm exactly what the Navajo shepherds tech actually covers - it initially looks op from cyclo's workbook but I am not sure if the gather bonus only relates to herdables or the farm itself?

My main concern was that european churches are so cheap, which make spys all the more accessible, but I think the 125 gold cost probably still makes them too difficult to spam in enough numbers.

Iro are also a good civ for Natives (most combat cards affect them), and they also have those scouts

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]Iro are also a good civ for Natives (most combat cards affect them), and they also have those scouts [/quote]
I used to enjoy the Scout Slam strategy so much, beat everyone up to like PR26 with that, easily, and you get some stupid comments "OMG, YOU HACKED SCOUTS!"...

well jack someone must of been reading our minds recently great info pal this tine I can read it lol