Spain 1.01 TAD

[36drew]

I know this has been discussed already, but lets here some thoughts.

[Navarone_Guy]

Lancers and rods will not be used anymore(at least not shipped). I think pikes/muskets and hussars will see a LOT more use. Maybe xbows, too.

[I__CHAOS__I]

I think lancers / rods will be hard to beat
but age II fight will be more common
archaic rush is still very strong and xbow/pike beats musk/hussar when you have the initiative

[Sporting_Lisbon]

They are down to average. The crown's jewel was stolen, all rest is better done by other civs.

[KingKaramazov]

While as Sporting says they don't do any one thing particularly well in comparison to other civs anymore (even their FF is not all that remarkable since they can't spam unit shipments anymore) they are extremely adaptable and have a crack unit combo in Lancers + Rods with the patch changes.

Their ability to send shipments more quickly than any other civ just adds to their adaptability. Personally I think they are definitely in line with the other "balanced" civs but I don't think that they are at all in a bad position going into 1.01.

Good Spain players will still be able to compete just fine - it simply won't be as easy or one-dimensional as before.

[luukje]

FF isnt nerfed that much, You still got some great fortress shipments (falconets), its the FF with lancer rods shipments that has been nerfed.

I think if you can go xbow rods. or musket/rods and send 700 wood; 5 and 4 villager, you can put good pressure on your opponent and from there on you can keep on fighting in colonial or go fortress for rods/lancers.

Spain always had trouble vs good musktes in age 2, xbows have got a little boost vs them and spain has got the best cav counter in age 2, so if people are to use more cavalry in 1.01, Spain will benefit.

As Ourk said, Dutch, China and Sioux were nerfed, so Spain came out on top in the patch testing, they had to do something.

I dont like that they nerfed some cards that much that nobody will ever use them (5 rods and 3 lancers). But the more I think about, Spain will be OK. Pretty good even.

But only if you are a player that can use the versalitiliy and not depend on fixed build order.

[I__CHAOS__I]

Halb FF is still good, Merc FF is still good, just because 2 shipments got nerfed it doesn't change all that much

- 12 pikes, 5 hussars, highlanders, swiss pikes, 2 cannons, 4 lancers, crates, upgrades etc...

I see myself enjoying spain a lot more tbh

[KingKaramazov]

Same here.

[Soccerman771]

I've NEVER won a game when playing as spanish...I'd love to learn how to play them.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Actually I think Spain lost its fun, but that's very subjective. The fun in Spain was to know how to make your attack efficient enough to take down the other guy before running out of shipments. A good nerf to Spain would have been giving a nerf to lancers vs HI and rods vs RI, they just fruit up the counter system especially when you add 21 atk dogs. Good you think they are fun now :p

[I__CHAOS__I]

well at least you'll need skills now, and not just click 5 age III shipments + type gg

[Palehorse]

Save time, choose a Fortress politician, start aging, then click 'gg'. Maybe you won't even need to finish aging, much less ship anything

[KingKaramazov]

This game was never meant to be won through the use of shipments alone....it's good that we seem to be moving away from that, especially with Spain, which was notorious for winning through unit shipment spam. You should have to produce the majority of your units.

Otherwise strategy and skill goes out the window.

Plus, in regards to Rods and Lancers, they are unique units which gain strengths in return for glaring weaknesses. Rods are awesome in hand to hand combat, fast moving, and cheap. But they have worse siege damage than most skirmisher units. They also don't have very good hp, so they die really quickly to any kind of protected ranged / siege damage.

Lancers do great against infantry but they still can't cost effectively beat good HI and they generally suck against other cav because of their lower damage.

So I think both of those units are fine. Rods used to be OP but they've been nerfed numerous times and are clearly balanced.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

well at least you'll need skills now, and not just click 5 age III shipments + type gg

Micro doesn't count? Lol but yeah I get your point. The thing is that it was too strong, otherwise there wouldn't be many problems, don't forget that germans also somewhat live from shipments in fortress too and they aren't out of skill.

This game was never meant to be won through the use of shipments alone....it's good that we seem to be moving away from that, especially with Spain, which was notorious for winning through unit shipment spam. You should have to produce the majority of your units.

A different view would be that you shouldn't win the game by shipping eco, argh those settler cards, res cards and OP refrigeration and royal mint should be nerfed - it's just the hc and cards stuff, you can't deny it adds stuff that you haven't ''made'' yourself. The concept of cards is imperfect right from the beginning.

It's way better now, Germany used to win games without a rax up

Otherwise strategy and skill goes out the window.

You need strategy to know what cards to send and when to and skill to make a good use of them :p The problem is when it is too strong (like it is in 1.00 spain)

Rods are awesome in hand to hand combat, fast moving, and cheap. But they have worse siege damage than most skirmisher units. They also don't have very good hp, so they die really quickly to any kind of protected ranged / siege damage.

The rods I know kill the ranged damage sources (aka anti-inf) before getting killed Skirms only get to be good rod killers after having CIR or in small numbers at range, which doesn't take for too long cause rods have 6 speed :p It's like fast halbs.

Lancers do great against infantry but they still can't cost effectively beat good HI

The thing is unupgraded musks and pikes shouldn't die like flies, like when you rush the spanish dude and he gets to fortress and thows in lancers and kill everything you have :\

My point is that lancers should have had a nerf vs HI, like having just x2, and rods should have got x0.75 vs RI instead of these nerfs to cards.

[I__CHAOS__I]

Rods do not pwn skirms. They have a pathetic 10 melee dmg. I think they interact just fine atm, some hit and run will kill a bunch. You need to micro though, don't let your skirms fight in melee, although they have x2.0 in melee as well. For rods to do well vs a group of skirms, you need to surround them asap, which is def not easy with pathing issues and other obstacles.

I agree on the lancer pov, but I guess it's by design :s