Math time

[I__CHAOS__I]

yeah I know but just wanted to share the link.

a very important factor for early game is how many batches of 5 can both spam non-stop? if Japan can keep up he'll simply end up with same amount of better units, even if stat wise they are proportionally (costwise) inferior, this same logic makes the sepoy rush so good imho

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Yes. The problem with Japan and India was that they boosted their eco without nerfing their units.

[Navarone_Guy]

Well, it's not that their units necessarily need a nerf, it's just that their unit selections are just too good. Maybe move zamburaks to age 3, etc.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

I'd be happy with 10 less hp for sepoys so that they die to tc in 2 hits and to xbows in 9 hits. Ashigaru idk

[Sporting_Lisbon]

And camel card needs nerf.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

What do you guys think of Tomas' 175 hp (with chief) 19 ranged attack and 14 mellee format? Tomas and Janis are good but don't break the countersystem as well as this Sepoys and Ashis. Ideas? Ashi's low damage vs cav is just dumb.

[I__CHAOS__I]

agreed with all of the above

HI could use a .75 vs infantry and get a slightly better attack vs cav and LI (in melee)

I still think nerfing the range of ashi's is a viable option, makes their extra speed somehow balanced (cuz they wont change the speed anyway, design)

i dunno about india, but those camels pwn too hard

[TheRam]

I like the fact Ashis aren't great against cav, I think they need a nerf to their upgrade capacity, maybe focus their upgrades instead on a different Japanese unit, one that's used less.
Don't try to make Ashis a standard musket, because they're a special type and are intended to be like that, high speed + lowish damage to cav makes them stay all round but means that in the case of mass cav Japanese players are more likely to utilise Samurai

[Sporting_Lisbon]

No they're meant to have high speed and low mellee damage overall, not low damage vs cav. Not even samurais counter cav, try killing axe riders with samurais and you'll laugh at the result.

[lordandcount]

Try the same with hatamoto

[Sporting_Lisbon]

That's the point, hatamotos got x3 while samurais got x1.75

[I__CHAOS__I]

x1.75 is just rofl

[Sporting_Lisbon]

HI could use a .75 vs infantry and get a slightly better attack vs cav and LI (in melee)

Agreed.

[Navarone_Guy]

Yeah, I like the sound of that. Musket units are just too good against light infantry, especially ones with weak multipliers. (Xbows, etc.)

[luukje]

To me ashi should recieve a hitpoint nerf, so we can keep it as a fast, high range damage musket type unit. At the same time they should reduce some of the stacking upgrades to once and for all end the 67 attack age 4 monster.
At the same time they should give samurai a higher multiplier vs cavalry. I remmeber a game where kingK fought my mamelukes and stradiots with samuarai and they couldnt do nothing against them.