what if...

[I__CHAOS__I]

there was a map with no fog of war at all, so you could see everything all the time? How would the gameplay be affected?
I thought about it a bit and I think it makes the game very intense, as you gotha be looking as much as possible to what your opponent does, his shipments coming in, which units he makes, where he moves... without neglecting your own duties. As the game goes on, it will actually be really hard to follow up on everthing going on, as you will need to adapt constantly, but so will your opponent as he sees your moves too.

what do you think?
and would it not be madness in a 3v3?

Could somebody mod a map and remove this fog? I'd love to try it out
I realize that some game aspects might be useless (like stealth) but who cares, fun FTW

[deaconferal]

Hmm... the very thought of a game like that is driving me nuts!

I'm sure there's a cheat (gasp) that turns it off, which you could do with someone you know, and agree not to use any others. Would certainly be interesting.

EDIT: By cheat of course I mean a type-in-and-play game cheat, not a hack or anything...

[deadhanddan]

intriguing chaos would be interesting to do a game like that , to the stealth option prolly be best to keep it as is , so what if your opponent sees you make 30 jaguar knights - the trick is figuring out where they are after stealth ability is turned on

[GeneralMichael]

With fog of war off it would make raiding impossible without using stealth. Though I don't think it would be that hard to see watch what your opponent is doing and micro your guys. All you need is a quick glance. In treaty games I usually have spies so i'm constantly watching what units are charging at my base and where buidlings are going up. Only way to raid is basically sneak a villager near the enemies base and quickly make units to attack, though it is very difficult since most of the time they are caught but every once and a while they go undetected until you start reaking havoc

[I__CHAOS__I]

I think raiding is def still a good option, as you know where to strike and what defense there is, you also don't know how closely your opponent is following your every moves...
the first 5-10 minutes it might be easy to keep on eye on both, but the longer it goes, the more intense it will get
Oh, and the map should come with some creepy horror movy music, to build up more suspense

[IndyBrit]

Well, Warcraft was like this back in the early days when fog of war was an option and a not always used option. Also, 40-minute treaty games typically include spies before the real action starts. I'd say the game is very different, but maybe not as much as you might think. A few units can still be lost in the mini-map especially during busy times. Further, although your raiding is somewhat less effective from lack of surprise, it's also more effective from perfect knowledge of your opponents villies and layout. I think raiding is a wash, or maybe just a bit more difficult.

Major moves, however, cannot be disguised. The primary difference IMHO is you know the general makeup of your opponents army and where their main army is located at all times. It shifts the emphasis more to strategy and macro management from tactics and micro management.

[cheesehat]

IF you see a large moving mass across the map, you can send ur whole army to intercept it...only to see SHEEP

[Soccerman771]

This would be very good for 1v1's. 3v3's would turn into treaty games or pick on the weakest link games.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""IndyBrit""]Well, Warcraft was like this back in the early days when fog of war was an option and a not always used option. Also, 40-minute treaty games typically include spies before the real action starts. I'd say the game is very different, but maybe not as much as you might think. A few units can still be lost in the mini-map especially during busy times. Further, although your raiding is somewhat less effective from lack of surprise, it's also more effective from perfect knowledge of your opponents villies and layout. I think raiding is a wash, or maybe just a bit more difficult.

Major moves, however, cannot be disguised. The primary difference IMHO is you know the general makeup of your opponents army and where their main army is located at all times. It shifts the emphasis more to strategy and macro management from tactics and micro management.[/quote]

I like the sound of that. I was always better at the big picture than I was at making sure 4 LB's moved at the appropriate moment, aimed at separate targets, fired, then moved again (provided the lag did not make them walk into hussars :roll: )

Removing the fog would be a cool option. Nice topic, Chaos.

[ruminator]

I think this encourages a turtle economy as no one dare send out to exposed hunts/trees as they will be raided almost immediately. it may encourage more use of towers as a strategic point to protest resources though, whic is quite an underutilised option imo.

Any FF or water boom will be spotted even quicker and so you can't risk this unprotected.

So, towers, towers, towers ....

[Highlander999]

You had this option in AOE2 iirc

[Blackadderthe4th]

Hmm tbh I would think this option would remove too much strategy from the game, no more unique or crazy strats but because the other team would always see it coming. No more gren/pike rushes, no more fish boom or boom at all, raiding will not be effective. On the other hand you would have to balance armies because knowing what the enemy has means you can counter it and so mixed forces would be required and individual skill and micro becomes much more important. On the other hand lol it might just mean that the civ with the most powerful units wins.

[Hydrovert5]

I agree with Chris here - this game is based entirely on strategy and scouting. You go and remove that FoW you've essentially thrown the game's concept out of the window.

Nice idea, but not practical.

[I__CHAOS__I]

just for 1 map, not removing from game...

[TheRam]

I think it'd be fun Chaos, I really do.
Might have to try it some time - it'd mean players would generally have to boom to fortress where you have a nice crisp SKIRM/MUSK/CAV/CANON and then pick and choose to out-counter your opponents, also - preempting would be greatly rewarded!