Coyotes or AK, what's the best anti-artillery

[Sun_Tzu1]

I struggle with this one. I'd rather build Coyotes than AK, however, my in-game experience tells me that AK are better at taking down artillery than Coyotes in practical situations.

If your opponent gets it right, it can be really hard reaching artillery with Coyotes.

However, I wonder if playing the Coyote stealth card might compensate and make Coyotes as good as AK for this role in-game.

Anyone with Aztec experience? Do you too find AK are better than Coyotes for taking down artillery? I guess I'm mainly thinking in terms of massed armies where an opponent protects their artillery rather than dispersed formations - where players leave their artillery unprotected.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Well, it depends. To take early on falconets like the 2 falc shipment it is easier and more effective to get a group of coyotes kamikaze. But if they're like 5-6 falcs and they are well protected by anti-cav it's safer to use AK.

[I__CHAOS__I]

coyotes > all

they have a much easier time getting inbetween the units than other cav (less pathing issues)
but vs massed cannons, go arrow knights, long range rox

personally, i think the stealth card is not worth an age II slot, there are too many other good options that get priority, and stealthed Jags are good enough

[Sun_Tzu1]

personally, i think the stealth card is not worth an age II slot, there are too many other good options that get priority, and stealthed Jags are good enough

Likewise, I'm relunctant to put the Coyote stealth in an age 2 slot - I know what you mean. However, when I have used it in a game it seems to pay back in the long run. Mainly because you get surprise in your engagements and you get good recon.

When I look back on the games I've played with it, I think I've probably killed enough extra vills, and fallen on enemy units enough, etc to more than pay back playing the card.

Having said that, I played it against an Iroq player today and it was useless because he kept his WC with his main army - which I suppose you're going to do as Iroq! In that situation, I probably ended up loosing Coyotes by using the card!

I supose it's like the WC card. Initially, it doesn't seem worth it - it's not as good as a military shipment for example. However, over a mid-long game (assuming you're not prone to forgetting about your WC and leaving him dead somewhere) it pays back.

[I__CHAOS__I]

but the WC card is age I, so easy to fit in your deck
age II cards are critical, as most games are colonial based
you need most of the military shipments, 3 WPs, the coyo combat, at least 1 vil shipment, crates...even 2 WH travois or 3 TPs are needed sometimes, leaving no space for the stealth card. Even cards like fencing school or some water cards could fill up some spots in age II...
if only you could play em all

[GeneralMichael]

I find that cyotes can take down artillery faster though if the enemy army has a large number of HI when they see the cyotes appear the other player tends to then send his whole army except the cannons to attack the poor little cyotes. So I tend to use arrow knights. Also I can't find a space for the stealth card... unless I remove the upgrade for the cyotes attack and hit points. On second thought no the cyotes need that upgrade if the enemy use a lot of RI.

[cleeduz]

[quote=""GeneralMichael""]I find that cyotes can take down artillery faster though if the enemy army has a large number of HI when they see the cyotes appear the other player tends to then send his whole army except the cannons to attack the poor little cyotes. So I tend to use arrow knights. Also I can't find a space for the stealth card... unless I remove the upgrade for the cyotes attack and hit points. On second thought no the cyotes need that upgrade if the enemy use a lot of RI.[/quote]

The Coyote Combat card is much better imho, than the stealth ability card. I don't think removing it for stealth ability is a good idea. 8O

Also, I tend to use AK vs artillery. I like their range and prefer to use coyote/mace to relieve the meat shield protecting his cannons. Ak's are my favorite fortress unit the aztecs have, they're like mini culverins, that also do great against infantry!

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

From the European perspective, let me just say that AKs can really ruin my day. I am always ready to protect against a coyote charge if I have artillery, but AKs have such long range and do so well against other kinds of units (and have 40% RR) that they can unhook a solid combo like cannon/ruyter or cannon/halb. Coyotes can't touch those combos, but AKs--like culverins--can break it wide open.

[GeneralMichael]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]From the European perspective, let me just say that AKs can really ruin my day. I am always ready to protect against a coyote charge if I have artillery, but AKs have such long range and do so well against other kinds of units (and have 40% RR) that they can unhook a solid combo like cannon/ruyter or cannon/halb. Coyotes can't touch those combos, but AKs--like culverins--can break it wide open.[/quote]
Kaiser I agree that arrow knights are vary hard to take down. I can't think of any unit that can do really that much damage to them in 1 hit. Though I have found that like most artillery the arrow knights have a hard time against a calv charge. So if you opponent does try to take on your cannons with AKs maybe try a counter attack with uhlans... though watch outh for some jaguars apearing out of thin air like I tend to have them do.

hmm I have tend to have been telling my secrets for how I dominate late game lately. I think I should refrain from posting my strategies incase RascalJones is snooping about and he discovers and plans a strategy to counter mine.